Or...Their shooting Kirk might be the "turning point". The line in the sand may have finally been crossed. And I am not talking about Obama's empty words about "lines in sands".
As one who watched the WTC collapse from one block away, the day is burned in my brain. I also remember the cry back then, "Never forget." alas, my observation is that now that we are 24 years removed from the attack, essentially one generation, almost everyone has forgotten. and maybe that's the reality, memory lasts for one generation only, after that, people have become far more concerned with the here and now and their own circumstances, rather than the history. this may be the (d)evolution of man and I cannot help but recall Santayana's words, those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. is that where we are?
Have you read the “Fourth Turning” (or The Fourth Turning is Here) by Howe? It’s actually every 4 generations where we forget and get to this point in time. All his books are quite interesting. The first one “Generations” sets the stage. BTW, he’s no slouch. He and his co- writer are the ones whose names for the current generations have stuck - gen X, millennials……
I have Rebecca, and refer to it all the time in my morning writings. but that is my point, while 4 generations are the overall cycle, my fear is that one generation is all that people remember any more. the evidence is strong that 9/11 is not even considered an issue for so many in society. for those of us who witnessed it up close, it is indelibly marked, but the changes we have seen, between the reduction in attention spans, perhaps due to the increase in social media, especially things like instagram and tik Tok, which are all about 30 seconds to say your piece, has changed the way those who were not directly impacted by 9/11 think about it. it is merely a story in the history books. and these days, it is not clear to me it is even in the history books, at least not the ones they use for public education.
The attention span of those born to the internet always in their lives appears to have the attention span of a gnat. Your fears may be well founded. The vitriol and lack of concern for human life bothers me as much. Lack of empathy. No empathy, don’t care about a tragedy? Is that the height of narcissism ? I didn’t know what this 4th turning would hold, now I’m saying “How much longer”!
"I think by now the cover up is pretty well known, eg the controlled collapse of building 7 etc." -don't always agree with you, and when I don't it's this. The Building 7 collapse is well explained by the circumstances of the day and the resulting compromise of the basic structure. The highest probability is that it was an uncontrolled collapse resulting directly from the loss of main structural column integrity. Nevertheless, I value your dialogue, experience, and perspective. Keep on keeping on. Staying subscribed;)
I am a technical engineer and Architect. It´s saddening to see how easily people can be convinced of even the biggest lies.
There are hundreds of irregularities around this event and NIST has done an enormously brilliant job to exactly circumvent all of them in their report. (Both reports)
You need to understand only one single piece of physics, First law of thermodynamics, to realise that the energy needed to destroy 200.000 tons of steel and even more of concrete with the energy contained in 70 tons of Kerosin is the most ridiculus idea on this planet.
Yeah- NIST report bad ≠ controlled det. A huge amount of debris fell ion the side of the building facing the North Tower, possibly including the spire (which did not fall to the south. Watch the collapse and the relation of the spire's fall to WCF 2 and 3). There was a large degree of multi floor damage, not to mention the airflow. The construction of 7 was unique in the way it was built over the substation. The most probable cause of collapse was failure of the main columns. That accounts for the visual dynamics of the building's collapse. That failure has a high probability of being caused by the fire in those unique conditions. Structural steel does lose it's strength in the conditions presented.
I worked there for 23 years. We use to go up to windows on the world after the close on windy days bc the sway variance at the top was 4 feet ( I'm not an engineeer... but it felt like it was 10) ...got hammered on martinis and ate bloody rare steaks...
I bet the steaks and martinis were good. I wasn't old enough on my one trip to the towers. I remember as a kid on a 6th grade trip(adventure) to NYC in '82, we went up to the top with the glass observation floor. My friends and I took turns daring each other to lean against the glass and look down. It must have been the south Tower because we also got to go on the roof top observation deck. My only visit...but it was a big deal to a kid.
I'm aboomer so my trip to the NYC skyline was at abt the same age only we went to the Empire State building ...
We moved the comex from Broad st to #4 WTC in 77, a 10 story building when they were still finishing the towers. They were beautiful buildings. of course the loss of our friends and all the thousands of workers was the true tragedy but losing those buildings has never been reckoned. Iwish we'd rebuilt them just as they were.
I had no intention whatsoever of starting a discussion.
What makes communication impossible, or rather what prevents us from finding common ground, has nothing to do with knowledge, facts, physics, etc., but is purely psychological.
Beliefs and convictions are among the strongest human motives. People would rather die than give up their beliefs.
Incidentally, I must admit that part of my initial post is incorrect. It is precisely the biggest lies that are easiest to convey. They go beyond the frame of reference of normal people with common sense and are therefore beyond the imagination, which makes critical examination difficult to impossible.
In modern times, Gustave le Bon (La manipulation des Foules), Ivy Lee (Changed the Monster John D. Rockefeller - think Ludlow massacre - into a ‘philanthropist’), Walter Lippman (Public opinion) and Edward Bernay (Propaganda) were already well aware of this.
Hitler himself – whose propaganda minister Goebbels used both Le Bon's and Bernay's books – said:
"All this was inspired by the principle – which is quite true within itself – that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.
It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.
"Some people lie, therefore all is lies"- not my philosophy and not what I was talking about. I was talking about the circumstances around WTC 7. Thin passive 'ad hominem' attacks buried in 'ma propaganda history' aren't a refutation of anything I said about the actual curcumstances of WTC 7 on that day. I suggest you take your own medicine. Cheers.
"The guy who shot Kirk got away." Maybe it's "The people who shot Kirk got away." So sad.
Or...Their shooting Kirk might be the "turning point". The line in the sand may have finally been crossed. And I am not talking about Obama's empty words about "lines in sands".
The tide always turns.
As one who watched the WTC collapse from one block away, the day is burned in my brain. I also remember the cry back then, "Never forget." alas, my observation is that now that we are 24 years removed from the attack, essentially one generation, almost everyone has forgotten. and maybe that's the reality, memory lasts for one generation only, after that, people have become far more concerned with the here and now and their own circumstances, rather than the history. this may be the (d)evolution of man and I cannot help but recall Santayana's words, those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. is that where we are?
Have you read the “Fourth Turning” (or The Fourth Turning is Here) by Howe? It’s actually every 4 generations where we forget and get to this point in time. All his books are quite interesting. The first one “Generations” sets the stage. BTW, he’s no slouch. He and his co- writer are the ones whose names for the current generations have stuck - gen X, millennials……
I have Rebecca, and refer to it all the time in my morning writings. but that is my point, while 4 generations are the overall cycle, my fear is that one generation is all that people remember any more. the evidence is strong that 9/11 is not even considered an issue for so many in society. for those of us who witnessed it up close, it is indelibly marked, but the changes we have seen, between the reduction in attention spans, perhaps due to the increase in social media, especially things like instagram and tik Tok, which are all about 30 seconds to say your piece, has changed the way those who were not directly impacted by 9/11 think about it. it is merely a story in the history books. and these days, it is not clear to me it is even in the history books, at least not the ones they use for public education.
The attention span of those born to the internet always in their lives appears to have the attention span of a gnat. Your fears may be well founded. The vitriol and lack of concern for human life bothers me as much. Lack of empathy. No empathy, don’t care about a tragedy? Is that the height of narcissism ? I didn’t know what this 4th turning would hold, now I’m saying “How much longer”!
3 more years I fear
Better than the 2035 that I had in the back of my mind.
"I think by now the cover up is pretty well known, eg the controlled collapse of building 7 etc." -don't always agree with you, and when I don't it's this. The Building 7 collapse is well explained by the circumstances of the day and the resulting compromise of the basic structure. The highest probability is that it was an uncontrolled collapse resulting directly from the loss of main structural column integrity. Nevertheless, I value your dialogue, experience, and perspective. Keep on keeping on. Staying subscribed;)
Ty cfrog… I’m no architect or engineer.. just a reader. “I could be wrong. I often am.”
I am a technical engineer and Architect. It´s saddening to see how easily people can be convinced of even the biggest lies.
There are hundreds of irregularities around this event and NIST has done an enormously brilliant job to exactly circumvent all of them in their report. (Both reports)
You need to understand only one single piece of physics, First law of thermodynamics, to realise that the energy needed to destroy 200.000 tons of steel and even more of concrete with the energy contained in 70 tons of Kerosin is the most ridiculus idea on this planet.
Service Post. Free of charge.
Yeah- NIST report bad ≠ controlled det. A huge amount of debris fell ion the side of the building facing the North Tower, possibly including the spire (which did not fall to the south. Watch the collapse and the relation of the spire's fall to WCF 2 and 3). There was a large degree of multi floor damage, not to mention the airflow. The construction of 7 was unique in the way it was built over the substation. The most probable cause of collapse was failure of the main columns. That accounts for the visual dynamics of the building's collapse. That failure has a high probability of being caused by the fire in those unique conditions. Structural steel does lose it's strength in the conditions presented.
I worked there for 23 years. We use to go up to windows on the world after the close on windy days bc the sway variance at the top was 4 feet ( I'm not an engineeer... but it felt like it was 10) ...got hammered on martinis and ate bloody rare steaks...
I bet the steaks and martinis were good. I wasn't old enough on my one trip to the towers. I remember as a kid on a 6th grade trip(adventure) to NYC in '82, we went up to the top with the glass observation floor. My friends and I took turns daring each other to lean against the glass and look down. It must have been the south Tower because we also got to go on the roof top observation deck. My only visit...but it was a big deal to a kid.
I'm aboomer so my trip to the NYC skyline was at abt the same age only we went to the Empire State building ...
We moved the comex from Broad st to #4 WTC in 77, a 10 story building when they were still finishing the towers. They were beautiful buildings. of course the loss of our friends and all the thousands of workers was the true tragedy but losing those buildings has never been reckoned. Iwish we'd rebuilt them just as they were.
Hi Frog,
I had no intention whatsoever of starting a discussion.
What makes communication impossible, or rather what prevents us from finding common ground, has nothing to do with knowledge, facts, physics, etc., but is purely psychological.
Beliefs and convictions are among the strongest human motives. People would rather die than give up their beliefs.
Incidentally, I must admit that part of my initial post is incorrect. It is precisely the biggest lies that are easiest to convey. They go beyond the frame of reference of normal people with common sense and are therefore beyond the imagination, which makes critical examination difficult to impossible.
In modern times, Gustave le Bon (La manipulation des Foules), Ivy Lee (Changed the Monster John D. Rockefeller - think Ludlow massacre - into a ‘philanthropist’), Walter Lippman (Public opinion) and Edward Bernay (Propaganda) were already well aware of this.
Hitler himself – whose propaganda minister Goebbels used both Le Bon's and Bernay's books – said:
"All this was inspired by the principle – which is quite true within itself – that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.
It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.
Enjoyed the exchange anyway. Cheerio.
"Some people lie, therefore all is lies"- not my philosophy and not what I was talking about. I was talking about the circumstances around WTC 7. Thin passive 'ad hominem' attacks buried in 'ma propaganda history' aren't a refutation of anything I said about the actual curcumstances of WTC 7 on that day. I suggest you take your own medicine. Cheers.
Glad to be free of any medication 😁
That is a nice breakout on silver today. SLV > $37.5